Blog

On this Wednesday Mythbusting Session of the Talking Pools Podcast, Natalie welcomes Greg back for part two of their conversation about plaster problems, hands-on mentorship, and an industry that occasionally treats collaboration like somebody suggested sharing a toothbrush.

With more than 35 years of pool experience, Greg shares his perspective on what can happen before a pool is filled, why documentation matters, and how helping another professional solve a problem can accomplish more than another social media argument.

In This Episode:

• Plaster problems before the fill: Greg discusses water-to-cement ratios, application practices, and the work of John Temple
• Water chemistry and the blame game: looking beyond an automatic verdict against the service professional
• Acid-wash timing: Natalie challenges the idea that washing new plaster sooner always produces a better finish
• Mentorship that sticks: teaching someone to troubleshoot instead of handing them an answer, or encouraging another expensive round of parts roulette
• Knowing your worth: building the knowledge and confidence to answer a homeowner’s questions
• Community over turf wars: sharing experience, supporting newcomers, and learning from other businesses
• The business behind the route: long-term customer relationships, the work Greg’s wife contributes, and his own struggle to find balance

Somewhere along the way, there’s a stubborn pool-light cord, a boating challenge, and a pizza discussion that takes an unnecessary but thoroughly on-brand detour through the bathroom.

Also in this episode: a clip from the mental health conversation and a welcome to Tru in the Loop with Truman, the newest Tuesday show on Talking Pools. If you missed Truman’s debut, go back and give it a listen.

Sponsor Appreciation

Thank you to PoolBrain, Revved Up Apparel, and H2Flow Controls, featured in this episode.

The 2026 Talking Pools Podcast Mentor Awards are also supported by BlueRay XL and United Chemical as Title Sponsors, LaMotte as Gold Sponsor, Revved Up Apparel as Silver Sponsor, and AquaComfort Water Group as Supporting Sponsor.

Music Credit

“How Life Goes” by Wendy Lucas. Thank you, Wendy, for sharing your music with Talking Pools.

Listener note: Contains adult language and a mental health excerpt referencing PTSD and grief.

Keep challenging the myths, keep learning, and keep sharing what you know.

With more than 35 years in the industry and a pool service business he started in 1990, Greg has plenty of experience to share. But helping someone get through today’s repair is only part of the job. He wants them to understand why something failed, how to investigate it, and what to do the next time it happens.

Greg shares how networking, volunteering, and stepping out of the back row helped him become someone other professionals call for guidance. He also discusses respecting a mentor’s time, helping technicians grow their businesses, and why cutting corners eventually catches up with you.

In This Episode:

• What a second consecutive Top Ten Mentor recognition means to Greg
• The mentors who shaped his approach, including his brother Randy, Alan Smith, Greg Garrett, Bob Lowry, and Rudy Stankowitz
• Why industry relationships and training can change the direction of your career
• Teaching someone to troubleshoot instead of simply handing them an answer
• Recognizing who is ready to learn, and setting expectations for their preparation
• Sharing accounts, exchanging referrals, and helping other professionals succeed
• Why mentoring remains a two-way street, even after decades in the business
• Teaching a beginner versus helping an experienced technician unlearn old habits
• The customer’s view of “splash and dash” pool service

Coming next: Natalie and Greg return for Part 2 to tackle pool industry myths.

2026 Mentor Recognition Sponsors: BlueRay XL, United Chemical, LaMotte Company, Revdup Apparel, and AquaComfort WaterGroup.

Chris is a third-generation pool professional and president of Cavanaugh Pool, Spa & Patio in western Kentucky. He shares how his family grew the business into a three-location operation, and how that growth made mentoring new managers and service techs essential.

Natalie also asks about Chris's first mentor: his mother. She taught him water chemistry, the work behind running a business, and one lesson every seasonal business owner needs to hear: plan for winter while the money is coming in.

In This Episode:

• Why Chris now sends interested employees to industry shows and asks them to bring back three ideas
• What to consider before putting a salt system on a steel-wall vinyl-liner pool, especially one with an automatic cover
• How groundwater can lift a liner and leave wrinkles when it recedes
• Why Chris says to call a professional before lowering the water in a pool with a floating liner
• What manufacturers could learn from the people installing and servicing their equipment

Chris's advice to anyone coming into the industry: try its different sides. Retail, service, sales, and installation each offer a path. Learn enough to find yours, then help somebody else find theirs.

John shares how a summer job pouring precast main drains became a decades-long career spanning commercial pool construction, service, plumbing, equipment installation and heavy machinery. He explains why the best field professionals must sometimes become their own engineers, how mentorship has evolved from guarded trade secrets to open knowledge-sharing, and why mistakes should be fixed, not used to assign blame.

Then it's time to bust some myths. John explains why excavating a commercial pool involves far more than "digging a hole," why bigger equipment is not always more efficient and how aluminum sulfate can reduce cyanuric acid without replacing most of the pool water. He also discusses alum's ability to remove phosphates, clear green pools and lift certain copper stains, as well as what alum cannot do.

In This Episode:

• John's unexpected entry into the swimming pool industry
• More than four decades of friendship and mentorship
• Building jigs and solving problems in the field
• Why asking "why" helped shape John's career
• Creating a workplace where mistakes are corrected without finger-pointing
• The skill and situational awareness required to operate heavy equipment
• Why the biggest excavator is not always the best machine
• Commercial-pool excavation tolerances and costly layout errors
• Using aluminum sulfate to reduce cyanuric acid
• What alum can, and cannot, remove from pool water
• The long-term physical cost of ignoring proper safety equipment
• Why commercial flow rates and equipment installation details matter
• John's ancient pool battle gear: alum and a pool brush

John's advice to the next generation is simple: learn from experienced professionals, attend industry classes, understand flow rates, protect your body and read the manual inside the equipment box.

Jeff shares how he progressed from repairing hot tubs in New Jersey to cleaning pools, repairing equipment, performing leak detection and eventually becoming a licensed pool contractor and sought-after mosaic specialist. He also discusses the craftsmen who mentored him, why he freely passes that knowledge forward and the satisfaction of watching someone build a better life through a skilled trade.

The conversation then shifts into Mythbusting Wednesday territory. Jeff explains why a tile labeled "pool rated" may still be the wrong choice, what he prefers for submerged applications and why translucent glass tile can become an expensive failure. He and Natalie also tackle waterproofing, calcification, efflorescence, thermal expansion, delamination and the limitations of cementitious installation products.

Jeff closes with his growing interest in fully tiled fiberglass pools, why field experience remains essential and what would come packaged with the official Jeff Hampe action figure.

In This Episode:

• Jeff's journey from hot-tub repair to high-end mosaic and all-tile pools
• How Jimmy Reed and Danilo Bonazza influenced his craft
• Why Jeff considers attention to detail a professional advantage
• Turning a landscaper into a highly skilled, well-paid tile installer
• How mentorship spreads when students begin teaching others
• Why "pool rated" does not automatically mean suitable for every pool
• Jeff's preferred tile thickness and construction for submerged applications
• The risks associated with translucent glass tile
• How UV exposure and different expansion rates contribute to delamination
• Why waterproofing alone does not eliminate calcification or efflorescence
• The role of epoxy installation products in all-tile pools
• What visible deposits along grout lines may reveal beneath the tile
• Why hands-on jobsite experience cannot be replaced by classroom instruction
• Learning from installation failures without lowering professional standards
• The industry's reliance on traditional distribution
• Why Jeff believes fiberglass deserves greater consideration
• Crumbled Italian sausage, jet skis and the Jeff Hampe action figure

Peter explains why a mentor should build independence rather than dependence, why trust is essential, and why challenging someone's thinking is sometimes the greatest help a mentor can provide. He also shares how recognizing burnout led him away from daily pool work and toward business networking and teaching people to use artificial intelligence more effectively.

The conversation then turns to AI myths: whether it will replace pool professionals, why ChatGPT should never be mistaken for an expert, the danger of entering sensitive information into unsecured systems, and why every AI-generated answer still requires a knowledgeable human in the loop. Peter also explains why using AI resembles servicing a swimming pool: both involve complex systems, disciplined methods, and potentially serious consequences when the fundamentals are ignored.

Plus, Peter reveals his preferred pizza, the superpowers society desperately needs, and exactly how he plans to embarrass his children if he wins the Mentor of the Year championship belt.

In This Episode:

• What effective mentorship looks like
• The difference between training and mentoring
• Why arrogance prevents professional growth
• Developing technicians who can think for themselves
• Recognizing burnout and changing direction
• How AI can support pool businesses
• Why AI cannot replace experience and judgment
• Protecting customer and business information
• Keeping the human in the loop
• Why strong industry standards and education matter

Natalie Hood sits down with Jerry Wallace, president of Swim Chem and one of the 2026 Talking Pools Podcast Top Ten Pool Industry Mentors. Jerry shares how he entered the family business as a teenager, the mentors who shaped his career, and why mentoring is about leaving the industry better than you found it.

Then Jerry puts his decades of water chemistry, plaster, and expert-witness experience to work busting some persistent myths about calcium nodules. Are they caused by excessive calcium hardness? Are they simply another form of scale? Can adjusting the water chemistry stop them?

Jerry explains why calcium nodules are typically associated with voids, delamination, pinholes, or cracks beneath the plaster surface, not a pool professional's failure to maintain the water. His message to service professionals is blunt: educate yourself, document your work, demand an explanation, and stop allowing people to steamroll you.

Jerry also discusses why manufacturers need to listen more closely to service professionals, what younger professionals bring to the industry, and the three groups every successful business must protect before looking at the profit-and-loss statement: family, employees, and customers.

And, because this is Talking Pools, Natalie settles the critically important question of whether pineapple belongs on pizza.

In This Episode:

• How Jerry entered the pool industry at age 16
• The mentors who helped shape his career
• Why mentorship is about life lessons, not merely technical knowledge
• How to recognize when someone is no longer coachable
• Why there are no shortcuts to long-term success
• The difference between calcium scale and calcium nodules
• Why high calcium hardness does not selectively create isolated nodules
• How voids, delamination, cracks, and pinholes contribute to nodule formation
• Why changing the water chemistry treats the symptom, not the underlying problem
• How service professionals can defend themselves against unsupported blame
• Why pool professionals must become experts in their trade
• What manufacturers misunderstand about real-world equipment retrofits
• Why the industry needs stronger communication between engineers and field professionals
• What younger generations are bringing to the pool industry
• The three priorities Jerry's father used to measure a successful year
• Jerry's controversial but unwavering defense of pineapple on pizza

The pool industry has more education available than ever, but is that actually part of the problem? New technicians are often buried under chemistry, equipment, software, procedures, and safety information before they have enough hands-on experience to understand how it all fits together.

Erik explains how guided workflows and point-of-need education could help technicians produce better results from the beginning while developing a deeper understanding over time. Instead of three days riding shotgun followed by being handed the keys and told not to turn anything green, technology can provide structure, consistency, and some desperately needed early wins.

Natalie and Erik Discuss:

• Why technician turnover is highest at the entry level
• Whether the education gap is really an education-overload problem
• The weaknesses of traditional pool-company onboarding
• Why hands-on learning creates knowledge that actually sticks
• Using software to reinforce education instead of replacing it
• Pool Brain's approach to guided workflows and chemistry recommendations
• Using historical data to predict future pH and water behavior
• Why experience, not intelligence, allows seasoned technicians to anticipate problems
• Automation as a force multiplier for pool professionals
• How technology can free technicians to develop higher-value skills
• Why automation equipment can become a profitable service-company revenue stream
• The value of competition among software companies and education providers
• Erik's continued relationship with Watershape University
• What attracted him to Pool Brain's long-term vision
• Why professional software requires more than an AI-generated interface
• Inflation, rising equipment costs, and the need for greater efficiency
• Route optimization, properly stocked trucks, and eliminating costly supply runs

Erik also addresses the fear that technology will eventually replace the pool professional. Automation may handle repeatable tasks, but it cannot change filter sand, clean a DE grid, diagnose complicated equipment problems, or replace the judgment developed through real experience.

Better technology does not eliminate the need for education. It can remove some of the repetitive busywork, help new technicians succeed sooner, and give experienced professionals more time to solve complicated problems, serve better customers, and operate more profitable routes.

Erik's goal at Pool Brain is straightforward: simplify what makes the job unnecessarily difficult, help pool professionals deliver safer and more predictable water, and give company owners the tools to become more efficient, profitable, and occasionally get home before dark.

Cold plunges may be popular, but cold water changes chemical reaction rates, sanitizer performance, testing accuracy, and the body's physiological response. Being young, athletic, or highly experienced around water does not make anyone immune to blood-sugar crashes, loss of consciousness, drowning, or other emergencies.

Natalie and Dewey discuss why cold-water samples should be allowed to warm before testing, why commercial plunges should strongly consider supplemental treatment such as UV, ozone, or advanced oxidation, and why a quick pre-entry rinse can remove a surprising amount of contamination before it enters a very small body of water.

They also address the biggest myth of all: because someone only spends a few minutes in a cold plunge, the risk must be low. The exposure may be short, but the risks are not necessarily smaller, they are simply different.

Topics Discussed Include:

• Why even healthy, conditioned athletes can experience emergencies
• The dangers of using a cold plunge, pool, or spa alone
• How cold temperatures affect water-testing reactions
• Why cold samples should be capped and warmed before testing
• Reduced sanitizer reaction rates in cold water
• Why small water volume and heavy bather loads create greater risk
• The value of UV, ozone, and advanced oxidation
• Sweat, ammonia, urea, dirt, and everything else bathers drag into the water
• Why pre-entry showers matter
• How a simple rinse can substantially reduce contaminants
• Why short exposure does not automatically mean low risk
• The importance of supervision, maintenance, testing, and operator diligence

The takeaway is simple: be diligent. Know what the water is doing, test it regularly, maintain the vessel properly, and never assume that experience or physical fitness makes someone bulletproof. A Cold Water Venue Guidance resource is available from the Council for the Model Aquatic Health Code for anyone who wants to go deeper.

Natalie also shares an update on her Tennessee Triple Crown Open Water Swim Challenge. She will swim more than 21 miles across three open-water marathon events to benefit Every Child A Swimmer through her fundraiser, She Swims So They Can. Special thanks to campaign sponsors RevdUp Apparel, H2Flow Controls, Ten Jam, and Talking Pools Podcast.

Eric explains how a conversation that began in 2022 eventually developed into an opportunity to combine the work he does best: water chemistry, education, technology, and solving real-world problems for technicians in the field. He also clears up the speculation surrounding his departure from Watershape University. There was no drama, no burned bridge, and no scandal, just an honest recognition of his strengths and an opportunity that better fits how his brain works.

The conversation then turns toward the future of the pool industry. Eric explains why artificial intelligence is unlikely to replace pool technicians, but will increasingly help them make better decisions, optimize routes, train employees, standardize service, and operate more profitable businesses.

Eric also offers an early look at Pool Brain's vision for automated chemical dosing, guided technician workflows, and "point-of-need education," giving technicians the information they need while they are standing in front of the pool, instead of making them wait for the next class or trade show.

In This Episode:

• Why Eric Knight joined Pool Brain
• How his relationship with Pool Brain began in 2022
• The truth about his departure from Watershape University
• Why recognizing your weaknesses is an important leadership skill
• What Eric is most proud of accomplishing at Watershape
• Why traditional industry education is becoming cost-prohibitive
• How AI will assist pool professionals without replacing field technicians
• Why more displaced white-collar workers are entering the trades
• The story behind the Orenda Calculator and Chemiculator
• How technology can eliminate dangerous chemical-dosing shortcuts
• What automated water-chemistry dosing could mean for service companies
• How guided workflows can improve training, safety, and accountability
• Why technicians need education at the exact moment a problem occurs

This is Part One of Natalie Hood's conversation with Eric Knight. Tune in next Wednesday for Part Two as they continue discussing his new role at Pool Brain and the technology being developed to support the next generation of pool professionals.

In this episode, Natalie Hood is joined by Dewey Case, Technical Director for the Council for the Model Aquatic Health Code and Aquatics Coordinator for Williamson County Parks and Recreation in Tennessee. Dewey helped assemble the experts behind the new CMAHC Cold Water Venue Guidance. Together, he and Natalie separate cold-plunge facts from social-media fiction and explain why these increasingly popular venues require far more attention than a tub, a garden hose, and several bags of ice.

They discuss why bacteria can survive in cold water, how lower temperatures can slow sanitizer performance, and why even a single user introduces sweat, body oils, cosmetics, urea, and microorganisms into the water. They also examine the much greater contamination burden created when a commercial system serves dozens, or potentially hundreds, of users each week.

The conversation covers the risks associated with poorly maintained systems, including biofilm, Pseudomonas, swimmer's ear, and the possibility of transferring gastrointestinal pathogens. They also explain why dunking your head into questionable cold-plunge water may be a particularly bad idea.

In This Episode:

• Why cold water does not sanitize itself
• The truth about bacteria and pathogens in cold plunges
• Why "I'm the only person using it" does not eliminate water-quality concerns
• What sweat, cosmetics, clothing, and body oils add to the water
• Why users should shower before entering
• The risks of head submersion in poorly maintained water
• How biofilm and Pseudomonas can develop inside plumbing and on surfaces
• Why commercial cold plunges are not simply oversized bathtubs
• How high bather loads change filtration, sanitation, and maintenance demands
• Why cold-water chemistry can be more challenging than spa chemistry
• How low temperatures affect chemical dissolution and disinfection
• The purpose of the new CMAHC Cold Water Venue Guidance
• Why proper operation, cleaning, and maintenance make cold-water immersion safer

As Dewey explains, a home cold plunge used by one person and a recirculating commercial venue serving hundreds of bathers are not the same thing. When the bather load changes, the operational practices must change with it.

This episode is essential listening for pool professionals, aquatic operators, health officials, inspectors, facility managers, designers, builders, fitness-center owners, and anyone responsible for operating a commercial cold-water venue.

Leslie's journey into the industry didn't begin with decades of pool experience, it began with a green pool, poor customer service, and the realization that the industry had room to improve.

Together, Natalie and Leslie tackle some of the biggest myths surrounding pool service businesses, leadership, customer service, company culture, growth, technology, and artificial intelligence. Whether you're an owner, manager, technician, or someone thinking about starting a pool company, this conversation offers practical lessons that apply far beyond the swimming pool industry.

In This Episode:

• How a green swimming pool launched one of Texas' fastest-growing pool service companies
• Why customer service is often a bigger competitive advantage than technical expertise
• The difference between running a pool route and building a scalable business
• Why growth creates as many challenges as it solves
• The importance of systems, standard operating procedures, and consistency
• Why not every customer is worth keeping
• Protecting employees while maintaining company values
• Leadership lessons from growing from one route to more than 4,500 customers
• The importance of training, mentorship, and creating career paths for technicians
• Why people, not pools, are often the biggest challenge in business
• How AI is changing customer service, operations, scheduling, and business management
• Why the pool industry still has opportunities to modernize through technology and professional development
• Building a company culture that employees actually want to be part of
• Why success doesn't make leadership easier, it simply changes the challenges

Key Takeaways:

• Great pool companies are built on leadership and customer experience, not just chemistry knowledge
• Growth without systems creates chaos
• Company culture is demonstrated through daily actions, not mission statements
• Investing in employee training pays dividends in customer satisfaction and retention
• AI should be viewed as a productivity tool that frees people to focus on higher-value work
• Consistency is often more valuable than constant innovation
• The future of the pool industry depends on raising professional standards together

From the belief that a strong chlorine smell means a clean pool to the misconception that "perfect" test results always equal healthy water, this episode challenges some of the industry's most common assumptions while exploring what truly creates exceptional water quality and profitable service routes.

The conversation goes beyond chemistry, diving into technician training, customer retention, specialty chemical programs, filtration, troubleshooting, and why successful companies focus on systems, not just products.

Whether you're servicing ten pools a week or managing hundreds of accounts, this episode offers practical insights that can help streamline operations, improve customer satisfaction, and increase profitability.

In This Episode:

• Why a strong chlorine smell usually indicates a water quality problem, not a clean pool
• The difference between clear water and truly polished water
• Why customers notice water feel and clarity before chemistry numbers
• How specialty chemicals can simplify service routes when used correctly
• Reducing chemical waste and inventory shrinkage
• Building consistent treatment systems that every technician can follow
• Why standardized service improves profitability
• How proper technician training reduces turnover
• The importance of mentoring instead of simply assigning new employees to routes
• Why asking questions is one of the most valuable skills in the industry
• Why filtration is just as important as chemistry
• Source water testing and why it often gets overlooked
• Variable-speed pumps during algae cleanup and problem pools
• Common myths surrounding pool chemistry education
• How manufacturers' representatives can become valuable technical resources, not just salespeople
• Practical ways to improve your business by working smarter instead of harder

Key Takeaways:

• Water chemistry numbers tell only part of the story
• Customer experience is driven by water clarity, feel, and consistency
• Good filtration and good chemistry work together
• Standardized operating procedures create more profitable service companies
• Better-trained technicians stay longer and provide better service
• Investing in education pays dividends throughout your business

Natalie also shares an update on her Tennessee Triple Crown Open Water Swim Challenge benefiting Every Child A Swimmer through her fundraiser, She Swims So They Can. Visit the Advocacy page to donate, explore sponsorship opportunities, or learn more.

Hilda shares her inspiring journey from struggling with her health and being significantly overweight to becoming an accomplished open water swimmer tackling some of the world's most demanding marathon swims.

Together, Natalie and Hilda break down some of the biggest misconceptions surrounding open water swimming, including:

• Why pool training alone isn't enough for marathon swims
• The reality of swimming in currents, tides, waves, and changing conditions
• Why your open water pace rarely matches your pool pace
• Building endurance without swimming race distance every training session
• The importance of strength training for injury prevention and performance
• Why hydration and nutrition can make or break a long-distance swim
• Managing fear, self-doubt, and race-day nerves
• The critical role of a strong support team during marathon swims
• Why pacing, not sprinting off the start, is often the smartest strategy

Hilda also recounts the emotional final mile of her Swim Around Key West, where exhaustion, heat, and powerful currents nearly ended her race before encouragement from her support crew, and especially her son, helped carry her to the finish.

Finally, Natalie announces her own next adventure: taking on the Tennessee Triple Crown of Open Water Swimming while raising funds for Every Child A Swimmer, helping provide lifesaving swim lessons to children.

Whether you're an experienced swimmer, training for your first open water event, or simply love hearing stories of perseverance, this episode is packed with practical advice, inspiration, and an honest look at what it really takes to conquer the open water.

Topics Covered:

• Marathon swimming
• Open water training
• Swim Around Key West
• Endurance sports
• Race preparation
• Hydration and nutrition
• Strength training
• Mental resilience
• Swim myths
• Every Child A Swimmer
• Tennessee Triple Crown of Open Water Swimming
• Swimming safety
• Long-distance swimming

Learn more about Natalie's own open water fundraising swim on the Advocacy page.

Drawing on decades of experience in sales, service, construction, retail, and technical training, Eric explains why the cheapest chemical program often becomes the most expensive, why callbacks destroy profitability, and why education, not guesswork, is the key to building a successful service company.

They also discuss the importance of standardized chemical programs, proper testing, customer communication, technician training, and why proactive maintenance beats reactive problem-solving every time.

If you're looking to reduce callbacks, improve customer retention, and build a stronger, more profitable service operation, this episode is packed with practical advice you can put to work immediately.

In This Episode:

• Eric Wall's journey into the swimming pool industry
• Why the cheapest chemicals often cost the most
• The hidden cost of callbacks
• Why every technician should follow the same chemical program
• Better testing leads to better decisions
• How customer communication builds long-term loyalty
• Why proactive pool care is more profitable than reactive repairs
• The myth that more chlorine fixes everything
• Building healthier water instead of simply adding more chemicals
• Why education is one of the most valuable investments a pool company can make

Next Wednesday, Natalie and Eric return to continue busting even more common pool industry myths and share additional strategies to help pool professionals work smarter, not harder.

In Part Two of this Myth Busting series, Natalie and special guest Jared Medeiros shift the conversation from commercial aquatic facilities to residential swimming pools, and explain why homeowners often create their own water quality problems without realizing it.

From Fourth of July pool parties and backyard barbecues to dogs swimming, sunscreen buildup, and overloaded pool chemistry, they explain why small habits can have a massive impact on water quality, maintenance costs, and swimmer health.

You'll also learn why commercial pools often maintain better water quality than backyard pools, why "clear water" doesn't always mean "clean water," and how a simple 30-second shower can dramatically reduce chemical costs throughout the swimming season.

If you own a pool, or know someone who does, this episode could save you hundreds of dollars while helping keep your family safer.

In This Episode:

• Why showering before swimming saves money
• How swimmers impact residential pool chemistry
• The hidden cost of sunscreen, lotions, cosmetics, and body oils
• Why pool parties dramatically increase chemical demand
• How dogs affect pool water quality
• The truth behind chlorine odor
• Why clear water doesn't always mean clean water
• Why adding more chemicals isn't always the answer
• Commercial pools vs. residential pools
• Why homeowners should learn basic water testing
• How simple habits extend sanitizer effectiveness
• Tips for reducing algae outbreaks after heavy pool use
• Why keeping a testing log improves water quality
• Protecting your investment with better pool care

Together, they explore why a simple 30-second rinse can significantly impact water quality, swimmer health, air quality, and operational costs.

Topics Covered:

• Why pre-swim showers matter more than most swimmers realize
• The biological load every swimmer brings into the water
• Sweat, makeup, lotions, cologne, and personal care products in pools
• The difference between chlorinated water and sterile water
• Why the "chlorine smell" is actually a warning sign
• Chloramines and their impact on indoor air quality
• Why showering after swimming is just as important
• The shared responsibility between swimmers and pool operators
• Common misconceptions about public and commercial pools
• How swimmer behavior affects water clarity, chemical demand, and overall pool health

From ergonomics and furniture design to pool covers, vinyl liners, fiberglass pools, and maintenance concerns, this episode challenges many of the assumptions surrounding today's popular tanning ledges and sun shelves.

Why Two Pool Loungers That Look Identical Can Perform Completely Differently

Mike explains how ergonomics, contouring, lumbar support, water management systems, and manufacturing quality dramatically impact comfort and usability. What looks great in a photo may become uncomfortable or frustrating after only a few uses.

The Hidden Problem with Water-Filled Furniture

Many in-pool furniture designs rely on trapped water for weight and stability. Mike discusses how some loungers can weigh more than 160 to 260 pounds when filled, creating challenges for homeowners, pool service professionals, and anyone using automatic pool covers.

Pool Covers and Furniture: Friend or Foe?

The conversation explores why many service professionals dislike heavy in-pool furniture and how furniture design can determine whether opening and closing an automatic cover becomes a simple task or a major inconvenience.

Does Heavy Furniture Really Mean Better Furniture?

One of the industry's biggest misconceptions is that heavier furniture automatically equals greater stability. Mike explains the science of buoyancy, water displacement, and how thoughtful engineering can create stable furniture without excessive weight.

Comfort Matters More Than Most People Realize

Not all in-pool furniture is designed with actual human comfort in mind. The discussion examines common design flaws and how proper ergonomics can dramatically improve the user experience for adults, children, and multi-generational families.

The Maintenance Nobody Talks About

Furniture left in pools year-round faces constant exposure to UV light, calcium scaling, scum lines, algae growth, and other environmental challenges. Mike explains what homeowners should know before purchasing furniture and why drainage design matters.

Vinyl Liner and Fiberglass Pool Considerations

Many pool owners have heard that luxury in-pool furniture isn't compatible with vinyl liner or fiberglass pools. Mike separates fact from fiction and discusses how furniture weight, movement, and construction can affect pool surfaces over time.

Why Water Depth Should Be Part of Every Furniture Conversation

One of the most overlooked aspects of pool design is matching furniture to tanning ledge depth. The episode explores how different water depths create completely different user experiences and why builders should discuss furniture plans with homeowners before construction begins.

Pool Furniture Is More Than Decoration

Today's in-pool furniture is no longer simply a visual accessory. The right furniture can influence how homeowners use their pools, interact with guests, enjoy tanning ledges, and maximize their outdoor living spaces.

Key Takeaways:

• Comfort should be evaluated, not assumed
• Furniture weight does not automatically equal quality
• Pool covers and furniture compatibility matter
• Maintenance requirements vary significantly between brands
• Vinyl liner and fiberglass pools require careful furniture selection
• Water depth should influence furniture decisions before a pool is built
• Proper engineering often matters more than appearance alone
• The cheapest option may become the most expensive over time

The conversation explores PoolBrain's latest breakthrough: fully automated LSI (Langelier Saturation Index) chemical dosing. Adam explains how PoolBrain now integrates with the Orenda calculator to automate complex water chemistry calculations, allowing companies to establish their preferred LSI methodology once and have the system consistently execute those calculations for technicians in the field. The result is reduced training time, increased consistency, improved water balance, and fewer chemistry-related mistakes.

Natalie and Adam also discuss one of the industry's most persistent challenges: technician turnover. Adam explains how PoolBrain was originally built to solve the difficulties of managing field technicians, maintaining service quality, and scaling operations without increasing administrative burden. The discussion highlights how automation can reduce training requirements, standardize procedures, and help companies maintain quality regardless of staffing changes.

The episode takes a deep dive into the growing role of automation in pool service operations, including:

• Automated chemical dosing
• AI-assisted tablet recommendations
• Customer communication systems
• Route management
• Billing automation
• Service verification
• Preventative maintenance alerts
• Equipment monitoring
• Inventory management innovations

Adam explains how modern software is shifting pool companies from reactive management to proactive operations by identifying problems before they become customer complaints. Examples include tracking PSI trends to detect clogged impellers, identifying recurring chemistry issues before pools turn green, and automatically notifying customers when routes change.

One of the most anticipated segments focuses on PoolBrain's future inventory management system. Adam outlines a vision of fully automated inventory tracking that follows products from supplier purchase to truck stock to chemical consumption at individual pools. The goal is a closed-loop inventory ecosystem that dramatically reduces waste, improves accountability, and eliminates countless hours of manual inventory management.

Natalie also challenges Adam on several common industry myths, including:

• "Software is only for large companies"
• "All pool software is basically the same"
• "Technicians hate software"

Adam explains why smaller companies often benefit just as much as larger operations and why modern pool software is evolving far beyond simple digital service logs into comprehensive operational platforms. The discussion concludes with a look at the future of the industry, including remote equipment monitoring, automated chemistry management, AI-assisted operations, integrated supplier purchasing, and the increasing role of data-driven decision-making in pool service businesses. Adam shares his belief that many operational tasks currently performed manually will become fully automated within the next five years, allowing service companies to focus more on customer relationships and business growth.

Whether you're a single-route operator, route manager, service technician, or owner of a multi-truck operation, this episode offers a fascinating look at how technology is reshaping the future of pool service.

Key Topics Discussed:

• The origins of PoolBrain
• Technician turnover and accountability
• Automated LSI dosing
• AI-driven chemical recommendations
• Customer communication automation
• Service verification and photo documentation
• Inventory management and purchasing automation
• Operational scalability
• Customer portals and self-service tools
• The future of AI in pool service
• Remote monitoring and predictive maintenance
• Why software is becoming essential for competitive pool companies

This week, host Natalie Hood sits down with Fred Ross, former tech executive, entrepreneur, commercial pool operator, and industry innovator, to discuss the rapidly approaching collision between AI technology and the swimming pool industry.

Fred shares his incredible journey from the transportation world into Silicon Valley tech, eventually building one of the largest independent commercial pool operations on the West Coast with 50 employees and over $5 million in annual revenue. Along the way, he witnessed firsthand the industry's resistance to technology, standardized processes, and scalable training systems.

Together, Natalie and Fred tackle some uncomfortable but necessary questions:

• Is AI about to radically change hiring in the pool industry?
• Can artificial intelligence actually identify better employees than humans?
• Will digital AI agents eventually replace customer service staff?
• Are robotic pool technicians closer than we think?
• What happens to one-route-and-a-truck companies when smarter competitors begin embracing automation?
• Will future pool companies be built around technology rather than chemistry knowledge alone?

The conversation dives deep into the realities of AI agents, automated recruiting, intelligent training systems, robotic cleaners, smart equipment, and the growing divide between companies willing to evolve and those still operating like it's 1960.

Fred explains why the real bottleneck in the pool industry isn't chemistry, it's business operations, hiring, training, communication, and scalability. He also breaks down how AI can dramatically reduce administrative burdens while helping companies improve customer communication, employee training, and operational consistency.

Meanwhile, Natalie brings the conversation back to the human side:

• Customer service
• Education
• Mentorship
• Workforce development
• Professional standards
• And the fear many people feel watching technology evolve this quickly

This episode balances excitement, concern, humor, and realism as the two discuss where the industry may be heading over the next decade. Whether you're excited about AI, terrified of it, or somewhere in between, this conversation will absolutely make you think. Because the future of the pool industry may not belong to the company with the biggest route anymore. It may belong to the company that learns fastest.

Key Topics:

• The importance of thorough pool inspections
• Common myths and misconceptions in pool safety
• The role of water chemistry and construction knowledge in inspections
• "Not all inspectors are trained equally"
• "Inspectors need broad construction knowledge"
• "Continuous education makes a better inspector"

Episode Segments:

• Introduction to Pool Inspections
• Understanding the Importance of Thorough Inspections
• Debunking Myths About Pool Inspections
• The Role of Education and Training in Inspections

From DIY disasters to misunderstood gas systems, this conversation is a wake-up call for builders, service pros, and homeowners alike. Fire features are not decorative add-ons, they are engineered systems, and when they're done wrong, they fail hard.

The Myths That Won't Die

• Why you can't just throw any glass into a fire pit, and what happens if you do
• The dangerous assumption that "a burner is just a metal ring"
• Why stainless steel is not all the same (201 vs. 304 matters more than you think)
• The truth about DIY fire pits and YouTube "experts"
• Why cheap online fire pits can become expensive problems

The Technical Reality (That Most People Miss)

• The difference between natural gas vs. propane systems
• Why gas volume vs. pressure changes everything
• How media (lava rock, glass) actually affects flame performance
• The role of ventilation, drainage, and airflow in preventing catastrophic failure
• Why drop-in pans and proper ignition systems are non-negotiable in high-end builds

The Cost of Doing It Wrong

• Real-world examples of $40,000 failures from poor system selection
• How undersized gas lines lead to weak flames and angry clients
• Why builders often get blamed for products they didn't even choose
• The hidden risks of cheap materials and knockoff components

The Smart Approach (What Pros Should Be Doing)

• Designing around engineered, off-the-shelf systems to reduce cost and risk
• Planning for gas, electrical, and system integration before construction
• Using certified components and proper materials, not hardware store shortcuts
• Building fire features that increase property value and performance

Key Topics:

• Water chemistry misconceptions
• Proper water testing and treatment
• Impact of pH, alkalinity, and CYA on pools

Sound Bites:

• "The acid column pour myth is not accurate"
• "Adjusted alkalinity is not the true alkalinity"
• "Salt systems do not inherently raise pH"

Chapters:

• Introduction to Water Chemistry Education
• Eric Knight's Journey in Aquatics
• The Future of the Pool Industry
• Debunking Myths about Watershape University
• Understanding the Curriculum and Its Accessibility
• Advanced Training and Certification
• Customer Service in Pool Industry
• Debunking Water Chemistry Myths
• Understanding pH and Chlorine Strength
• The Future of Pool Automation
• Understanding pH Myths in Swimming Pools
• Salt Systems and Their Chemistry
• Cyanuric Acid: The Misunderstood Protector
• The Importance of Education and Automation in Pool Management

From first impressions and customer trust to team morale, durability, and built-in marketing, this episode breaks down the myths surrounding branded apparel and reveals how something as simple as a shirt can directly impact your bottom line.

What You'll Learn:

• Why "a t-shirt is just a t-shirt" is completely wrong
• How branded apparel builds instant trust in under 3 seconds
• The hidden cost of not investing in professional uniforms
• Why small pool companies benefit the most from branding
• How apparel can function as a 24/7 marketing tool (QR codes, visibility, referrals)
• The truth about durability vs. cost in harsh pool environments
• Why team uniforms improve morale, unity, and professionalism
• How to eliminate inventory headaches and wasted apparel spend
• The real difference between "splash-and-dash" vs. professional service presentation

Key Myth-Busting Moments:

• Myth: Custom apparel is too expensive.
  Reality: Traditional barriers (setup fees and minimums) are outdated. Modern solutions make branding accessible, even for solo operators.
• Myth: A t-shirt is just a t-shirt.
  Reality: Your shirt is a walking billboard, trust signal, and first impression before you ever touch the water.
• Myth: Branding doesn't matter for small companies.
  Reality: Small operators benefit the most, because you are the brand.
• Myth: Custom apparel takes too long.
  Reality: With modern production methods, turnaround can be as fast as 3 to 4 weeks.
• Myth: You need to be a designer.
  Reality: Done-for-you design processes eliminate the need for creative skills.
• Myth: Uniforms don't affect team morale.
  Reality: Teams that look unified perform unified, and customers notice immediately.

Industry Insight

This episode goes deeper than apparel, it's about perception economics: customers decide if they trust you in seconds, your truck, uniform, and presence create instant credibility or doubt, and branding consistency leads to repeat business and referrals.

As discussed in the episode: a clean truck, branded uniform, and professional presence add up to higher close rates and stronger retention.

From the idea that pools don't add value, to the belief that social media is the only way to grow, to the quiet damage done when service pros choose profit over trust, this episode pulls apart the assumptions that are quietly shaping bad decisions across the industry.

And here's what becomes clear: pools aren't just features anymore, they're environments. Marketing matters, but it's not the foundation. Trust is still the most valuable asset you have. And the wrong service decision can cost you a customer forever.

Myths We Destroy in This Episode:

• "Pools don't add value to a home."
  In the Sunbelt? Not having one might cost you buyers.
• "Leads come from social media and ads."
  Helpful? Yes. The reason people choose you? Not even close.
• "Replace the pump, it's better for business."
  Short-term profit. Long-term damage. Trust doesn't come back.
• "Weather doesn't affect the pool industry."
  Hurricanes, freezes, heat waves: they literally drive demand.
• "Vinyl liner pools dominate the Northeast forever."
  That was then. Fiberglass and concrete changed the game.

Key Takeaways:

• A pool isn't just a feature anymore, it's part of a lifestyle environment
• Geography matters: what's optional in one region is expected in another
• Social media amplifies, but reputation closes
• The fastest way to lose a customer is to recommend what benefits you, not them
• Weather doesn't just influence demand, it can create entire revenue cycles
• The industry evolves, but trust is still the constant

Why This Episode Matters

Because bad information spreads faster than good service. And in this industry, myths don't just sit there. They cost people money. They cost companies customers. And they quietly shape how the next generation does business. This episode fixes that.

Together, they break down long-standing myths, challenge misconceptions, and pull back the curtain on how the industry actually works, from filtration truths to homeowner expectations and the real cost of doing business. This is part one of a conversation that blends history, hard truths, and a little bit of "back in my day" wisdom that still hits in 2026.

The Truth About DE Filters

• Why diatomaceous earth (DE) has been unfairly labeled as dangerous
• The real health risk (and when it actually matters)
• Why DE still delivers unmatched water clarity (down to 1 to 2 microns)
• Best practices for safe handling and application
• How regulations, especially disposal laws, have influenced filter trends

Why Cartridge Filters Took Over

• The real reason service companies prefer cartridges
• Speed, simplicity, and truck-stock efficiency
• How distribution realities shape what gets installed in backyards

The Myth: Pools Are Too Much Work

• Why this belief is outdated (and costing homeowners joy)
• How automation has changed everything: salt systems, chemical controllers, smartphone-based pool management
• Real-world example: a pool requiring almost zero chemical additions all season

The Myth: Pools Are Expensive to Operate

• Variable-speed pumps drastically lower energy costs
• What actually drives operating expenses (hint: not what homeowners think)
• Why modern pools are cheaper to run than they were 30 years ago

Regional Reality Check

Florida is a service-heavy market, while the Midwest and Northeast have historically been more DIY-heavy. The conversation explores how geography shapes customer expectations, service models, and buying decisions.

Pro Takeaway

There's a quiet shift happening in the industry: homeowners are less involved than ever, technology is removing friction, but expectations are higher than ever. And if you're a service pro, the job isn't just cleaning pools anymore, it's managing systems, trust, and long-term relationships.

Next episode gets into the stuff that actually affects your reputation, and your bottom line.

For more than four decades, Herman has documented the evolution of pools, fountains, spas, and aquatic design, not merely as a trade reporter, but as a historian of water itself. His work spans the early days of modern pool construction journalism at Pool & Spa News, the groundbreaking launch of WaterShapes Magazine in 1999, and today's digital continuation of that legacy through watershapes.com, a library containing more than 5,000 articles chronicling the craft, science, and culture of water.

But this episode isn't just about history. It's about myths, the assumptions, half-truths, and inherited wisdom that circulate through the pool industry and public perception alike. In a conversation that moves effortlessly between science, storytelling, and cultural memory, Herman and Hood begin dismantling some of the most persistent myths surrounding swimming pools, safety, and water chemistry.

A Journalist in the Deep End

Eric Herman's journey into the aquatic world began not with pools, but with curiosity. His first published article in 1986, for Orange Coast Magazine, examined the emerging microbrewery industry. Within three years, that curiosity would lead him to an interview in Los Angeles with pool industry pioneer Jim McCloskey, then editor of Pool & Spa News. The result was a career that has now stretched 40 years.

At Pool & Spa News, Herman covered everything from service techniques and plaster science to drowning prevention, topics that would later shape the direction of aquatic education and professional training across the industry.

When Herman and McCloskey launched WaterShapes Magazine in 1999, they intentionally broadened the conversation beyond swimming pools. The publication examined water as a design medium: pools, fountains, ponds, streams, water parks, hot springs, landscape architecture, and hydrological design all found a home in its pages. The result was a publication that changed how aquatic professionals thought about their craft.

Today, that legacy continues through the digital platform watershapes.com, publishing twice monthly and maintaining one of the most comprehensive archives of aquatic design knowledge anywhere in the world.

Myth Busting Begins

Hood frames the conversation around a theme she frequently explores on the show: myths in aquatics. But Herman begins by reframing the idea of myth itself. Traditionally, he explains, myths weren't falsehoods. They were symbolic stories meant to communicate deeper truths. The modern use of the word, describing something widely believed but factually incorrect, is almost the opposite.

With that philosophical detour complete, the myth busting begins.

Key Topics:

• Myth of continuous circulation with pump running
• Flow rate vs. filtration effectiveness
• Importance of accurate flow measurement
• Role of VFDs in energy savings
• Mechanical issues masquerading as chemical problems

Sound Bites:

• "Flow measurement is critical for safety"
• "VFDs are widely used in pools now"
• "Reducing pump speed saves energy"

Gary shares insights on the hidden costs of cheap vacuum bags and the significance of quality in cleaning efficiency. The conversation highlights innovations in vacuum bag technology and concludes with Gary's encouraging message to strive for excellence in the pool industry.

Takeaways:

• Gary transitioned from the restaurant industry to the pool industry after losing his restaurants
• Customer service is crucial in the pool industry and can set you apart from competitors
• COVID-19 forced many in the pool industry to adapt and innovate due to supply shortages
• Many people believe all vacuum bags are the same, but quality varies significantly
• Cheap vacuum bags can lead to hidden costs that add up over time
• Quality vacuum bags improve cleaning efficiency and customer satisfaction
• Innovations like VacBags can simplify the cleaning process for pool professionals
• It's important to have spare products on hand to avoid delays in service
• Gary emphasizes the need for problem-solving and finding solutions in the industry
• A positive attitude and commitment to quality can lead to success in the pool industry

Cara emphasizes the need for setting boundaries to prevent burnout and encourages listeners to embrace learning opportunities and not fear failure.

Takeaways:

• Aquatics Program Directors play a crucial role in managing aquatic facilities
• Delegation is essential for effective leadership and team growth
• Mistakes should be viewed as learning opportunities rather than failures
• Strong communication skills are vital for successful aquatics management
• Emergency preparedness is a key responsibility of aquatics directors
• Setting boundaries is important to prevent burnout in the aquatics industry
• Continuous learning and development are necessary for professional growth
• Hard conversations are part of leadership and should not be avoided
• Understanding and addressing myths about aquatics can improve the profession's image
• Embracing failure as a part of the learning process is essential for success

Sound Bites:

• "Delegation is key to success in leadership"
• "Mistakes are opportunities for growth"
• "Protect your peace and personal time"

They discuss the common myths surrounding the profession, the skills required for success, the importance of continuous education, and the necessity of understanding codes and compliance in aquatics. The conversation emphasizes the need for adaptability and setting high standards for lifeguards to ensure safety and professionalism in the aquatic environment.

Takeaways:

• Aquatics program directors often start as lifeguards or swim instructors
• The role is not just a summer job, it requires year-round commitment
• Continuous education is crucial for career advancement in aquatics
• Understanding codes and compliance is essential for safety
• Adaptability is key in managing aquatic facilities
• Setting high standards for lifeguards is necessary for success
• Communication is vital for addressing scheduling and training issues
• Professional development opportunities should be pursued actively
• Myths about the aquatics profession can hinder understanding of its complexities
• Leadership development is important for the next generation of aquatics professionals

Sound Bites:

• "It's not just a summer job"
• "You have to continue learning"
• "You can't just walk off that deck"

They explore the speed of construction, maintenance requirements, and the environmental benefits of ICF pools, while also touching on finishing options and the future of this innovative building method.

Takeaways:

• ICF pools are often misunderstood and seen as a trend
• They offer significant design flexibility without limitations
• Waste management is more efficient with ICF pools compared to traditional methods
• The construction process for ICF pools can be faster due to fewer subcontractor dependencies
• ICF pools require less maintenance due to their waterproof nature
• They are resilient against thermal stress and environmental factors
• ICF pools can be built in areas lacking skilled subcontractors
• Finishing options for ICF pools are versatile and can include various materials
• ICF pools provide a controlled environment for concrete, enhancing longevity
• The future of ICF pools looks promising as awareness and technology improve

Sound Bites:

• "ICF pools take longer to build?"
• "ICF pools are forgiving"
• "ICF pools are waterproof"

Casey shares her personal journey as a mother of a drowning victim and her advocacy work with Every Child A Swimmer. The conversation emphasizes the importance of year-round swim lessons, the dangers of floaties, and the need for funding and resources to support water safety programs. They also highlight the necessity of normalizing discussions about water safety to prevent future tragedies.

Takeaways:

• Water safety is layered and often misunderstood
• Supervision alone is not enough to prevent drowning
• Swim lessons can start as early as six months
• Drowning can happen quickly and silently
• Floaties provide a false sense of security
• Drowning risks exist beyond just pools
• Year-round swim lessons are essential for skill retention
• Funding for swim programs is often limited
• Education is key to preventing drowning incidents
• Every child deserves access to swim lessons

Sound Bites:

• "Drowning is fast and silent"
• "Invest in swim lessons early"
• "Every child can learn to swim"